Review Doctor Who (2005)

I'm quite okay with it. I get rather tired of seeing it used by conservatives on the web who really have no idea what they're saying, so long as they're repeating something they heard on Faux News.

Doctor Who - Clara and the Tardis

AUDIENCE SCORE.....

SERIES 1: 85% liked it

SERIES 2: 90% liked it.

SERIES 3: 93% liked it.

SERIES 4: 94% liked it.

SERIES 5: 91% liked it.

SERIES 6: 85% liked it.

SERIES 7: 83% liked it.

SERIES 8: 79% liked it.

SERIES 9: 84% liked it.

SERIES 10: 72% liked it.

SERIES 11: 31% liked it.

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/doctor_who/s11/

Doctor Omega said:

SERIES 11: 31% liked it.

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While this is disturbing, I can't help but think it is poetic justice after the BBC threw Capaldi under a bus, claiming his lack of popularity in light of what was trumpeted as the instant success of the Whittaker era.

I just can't help feeliing "serves 'em right".

I suspect that this figure, alongside what seem to be a feeble amount of merchandising, surely puts the show in a bit of a quandary.

Let's hope the BBC can pull the show out of what seems to be a bit of a hole.

Recasting may not be necessary, but certainly I think a non-fan "showrunner" is needed, of Hinchcliffe proportions, - who has a genuine, enthusiastic vision (as opposed to an ethos of "Oh, go on then, I'll produce the show!") and who is not afraid to kick ass and finally drag true greatness out of Jodie Whittaker - if she is willing to be challenged.

I just feel that she has lacked direction and seems to have been left to her own devices a little too much, falling back on "who farted" facial reactions and (from what I have seen) has yet to show the 2000 year old person behind the so far, imo, empty gaze and her (pulling me out of the story) accent.

Chibnall may be a nice guy, but I feel he has to be let go and bring in a firebrand, who is more than happy to produce 13 episodes of a once again kick-ass show.

I think Jodie would be silly to leave with Chibnall and should be excited about a new vision coming in, that challenges her to be even better than she has been.

But I suspect that Chibnall will indeed be still the Series 12 showrunner.

And my fear is that Series 12 will consequently be the end of the line for the current iteration of the show.

I take ratings on sites like Rotten Tomatoes with a grain - and sometimes a full shaker - of salt. While they can be pretty accurate, we have seen many times when they have been hijacked by people out to sab-o-tazhe (read in Shatner's voice) anything they dislike. This could be an accurate representation of the fanbase, or it could be a bunch of guys still upset at Jodie's casting - you know, the ones who like to say things like "Mrs. Who", not realizing that comments like that have a sexist connotation, whether they intend it or not - just going on and giving low reviews.

Doctor Omega said:

Chibnall may be a nice guy, but I feel he has to be let go and bring in a firebrand, who is more than happy to produce 13 episodes of a once again kick-ass show.

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I wholeheartedly agree. Alas, where do we find this wunderkind? You would think that this is a show that people would be lining up to take the reins, and yet, they had to twist this guy's arm to do it.

Doctor Omega said:

but certainly I think a non-fan "showrunner" is needed, of Hinchcliffe proportions,

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If only we could find another Hinchcliffe.

Chinballs, Moffhack and all the lunatic fringe who have eased themselves into positions of power can all go and rot for all I care! They've ruined the best television show ever and tried to destroyed our childhood heroes because they weren't fans as kids themselves or are part of a madness to change the basic human identities of the entire human race! This idea to make the Doctor a woman or black or whatever rather than an eccentric middle aged white guy was bound to fail but Chinballs like the BBC refused to listen and that's why even if it came back with a new man and not a word, the damage has already been done!
JB

johnnybear said:

Chinballs, Moffhack and all the lunatic fringe who have eased themselves into positions of power can all go and rot for all I care! They've ruined the best television show ever and tried to destroyed our childhood heroes because they weren't fans as kids themselves or are part of a madness to change the basic human identities of the entire human race! This idea to make the Doctor a woman or black or whatever rather than an eccentric middle aged white guy was bound to fail but Chinballs like the BBC refused to listen and that's why even if it came back with a new man and not a word, the damage has already been done!
JB

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They’ve actually been thinking about making the Doctor a woman since the 4th Doctor. I think as long as the show is well-written, and the actor is up to snuff, anybody can play the Doctor. Some of the stories this series have been a little “meh” but it’s not bad. I hope Chibnall lets someone else do the writing next season.

The woman since the Fourth Doctor bit was a joke made by Tom Baker at the press call in 1980 as I recall! They used to bring it out every time a Doctor was going to drum up interest and the nay sayers! But the idea of changing sex Time Lords is purely a Moffhack nightmare and never been alluded to before in the once great history of the show!
JB

johnnybear said:

The woman since the Fourth Doctor bit was a joke made by Tom Baker at the press call in 1980 as I recall!

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I believe JNT in his memoirs said that a slightly tipsy Tom turned to him, just before they were about to face the press, and said "I'll give them something to talk about!" or words to that effect....

It's not mentioned in the cutting below, but Tom bellowed: "I wish the best of luck to my replacement; whoever he - or she - may be!"

Yes, that's where it all started. I
JNT never seriously considered it, but his area of expertise was publicity, so he was happy to use it.






Then this happened in 1986.....


https://www.denofgeek.com/us/tv/doc...r-sydney-newman-had-plans-for-a-female-doctor


Doctor Who Creator Sydney Newman Had Plans for a Female Doctor
Would you have traded Sylvester McCoy for a female Doctor? Sydney Newman was for it...

Sydney Newman was certainly a man ahead of his time. The one-time head of BBC drama and co-creator of a little show called Doctor Who was campaigning for a female Doctor long before the topic became such a widely-discussed issue.

According to a letter found in the BBC archives (and brought to light in "The Last Chance Saloon," a Doctor Who documentary included on the "Time and the Rani" episode DVD), Newman pitched the idea of regenerating the Doctor into a woman back in 1986 when Doctor Who was seriously struggling in the ratings during the Colin Baker era.

According to this Telegraph article, Newman proposed the idea to then head of BBC Controller Michael Grade, who asked Newman for advice on how to save the struggling show. Newman advised that Doctor Who bring Patrick Troughton back for a time (this was six months before Troughton's death) to settle the show before transitioning to a female lead. Here are some excerpts from his pitch:

At a later stage Doctor Who should be metamorphosed into a woman. Don’t you agree that this is considerably more worthy of the BBC than Doctor Who’s presently largely socially valueless, escapist schlock? ... This requires some considerable thought – mainly because I want to avoid a flashy, Hollywood Wonder Woman, because this kind of heroine with no flaws is a bore.

Newman has a bold pitching style, I'll give him that. Categorizing the show as "socially valueless, escapist schlock" to a person who is partially responsible for said schlock is ballsy. Especially given that Newman's letter was not only a bid to return to the more creatively-successful early days of Doctor Who, but also, more or less, a job pitch. Newman went on to say:

Should you accept these ideas, the fee I would accept would be in the form of my being taken on and paid to be its executive director to ensure the concept is properly executed.

Of course, Grade and the BBC did not take Newman's suggestion, instead hiring Sylvester McCoy to replace Baker as the Seventh Doctor. Despite the fact that Doctor Who arguably improved creatively during the McCoy era, ratings would dip even further, resulting in the show's 1989 cancellation after only three seasons with McCoy as Doctor. Doctor Who would then stay off the air for 16 years until its 2005 revival.

It's hard to imagine if a bold, socially-revolutionary decision to change the Doctor into a woman could have saved the show, but, surely, there is an alternate timeline out there in the universe where it happened. Presumably, this world is now a more socially-progressive place in which we also have already had multiple female-centric standalone films within the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

Of course, BBC never seriously entertained Newman's suggestion that the Doctor regenerate into a woman. If there is as much blowback against the idea as there is now, in 2016, then you can only imagine how BBC executives responded to the suggestion 30 years ago in 1986. As the documentary's director, Ed Stradling, put it:

Newman’s suggestions would have certainly have been considered, but they were never taken on board. He was a hugely respected and influential figure in British drama, which makes it all the more surprising that his suggestions were just so off-the-wall.

Still, it's not hard to imagine how a man who was not only ahead of his time enough to help imagine Doctor Who into existence and then appoint a female showrunner in the form of Verity Lambert (who, up until that point, had never produced, written, or directed a TV show) would also be way ahead of the curve when it comes to the idea of a female Doctor. Clearly, Newman was a narrative genius. Whether you agree with his female Doctor suggestion or not, it's hard to argue with the Canadian's legacy as "the most significant agent in the development of British television drama."


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The first direct on-screen reference to a Timelord changing gender was, of course, in Neil Gaiman's "THE DOCTOR'S WIFE", where the Doctor mentions a fellow Time Lord who changed gender once.

Other seeds that were planted during Moffat's reign......


The General's Regeneration | Hell Bent | Doctor Who






She was my man crush | Doctor Who

My own take on the matters is that as time goes on it becomes less and less feasible to call the 55 year and counting fictional narrative of DOCTOR WHO one whole thing.

I was delighted in 2003 when I heard that the newly announced revival of the series would not be a reboot, but a continuation.

Now I wish that they had rebooted instead.

The 1963-1989 series was a product of a world that no longer exists, full of it's companions (often but not always) being screamers and black actors being mute slaves.

I love the classic show, much much more than the modern show, despite these flaws. It stirred my childish imagination and I revelled in the fact that there were worlds out there with ice-tombs, minsicopes, Sontarans, Krynoid pods. And a Doctor who was righting universal wrongs.

But some of it offends the sensibilities of the modern world. A white actor playing Chang in TALONS. My God, that would cause an uproar now. The "N" word being used in THE CELESTIAL TOYMAKER, And Polly being instructed to put the kettle on.

It is laced with sexism, racial prejudice and a farcical budget.

But it is brilliant - much, much more brilliant, in my opinion, than the vast majority of the new show - and I will always love it, despite these flaws.

And I would now be happy for it to remain separate in it's own bubble. (Even though i know it won't, coz the new series will always continue to feed on it's archived corpse.)

Also, now, when Modern Who references it, there is often an element of piss-taking: "Oh, you're wearing celery, brave choice!". And the first Doctor is a sexist moron. Monsters are redesigned and altered beyond recognition. Sontarans are comical. Silurians unrecognisable. Ice Warriors are now cyborgs. Gender changing now always existed where a close study of Classic Who shows a grand total of absolutely zero on-screen evidence of gender changing.

References are now being thrown in that the Doctor may have been female before. "Long time since I shopped for women's clothes." etc etc.

No. He never was.

It's just getting ridiculous and completely unfeasible. Trying to retcon the 1963-89 narrative.

Best surely to leave those years in their own brilliant, but flawed bubble.

A timeless classic, but best left untouched and watched with historical filters on the eyes, allowing for it's real world prejudices of the time it was made in. Because these flaws sure don't play well in the world of today.

And I think attempts by the show now to link to it are becoming more and more embarrassing, insulting, unfeasible and farcical.


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But imagine if Eccleston had been the "new" first Doctor, freshly leaving a destroyed Gallifrey. Doctor number one. It makes it more feasible that gender changing has always existed in this version of the series and that his fifth body would be Jodie, after only four previous Doctors. He fancied a change.

I really wish it had been a reboot and not a continuation.

What do others think?



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* I don't totally loathe the new series. But I would contend that it has given us mainly brilliant moments and only an odd episode or two that will stand the test of time.

My pick of New Who brilliance......

- That fob watch moment with Jacobi's Professor Yana. So well done.

- Human Nature/Family of Blood... The Doctor becomes human and stupidly overlooks falling in love.

-Midnight..... The Doctor almost destroyed by scared humans, showing them to be more dangerous than any alien foe.

- The Bill as a Cyberman cliffhanger. Probably the director's talent that time.

That and a few others are the minimal amount of wheat amongst a lot and lot of chaff.

Fans being in charge of the asylum has not helped either, I think, as they somehow feel tempted to keep reinventing the wheel and adding stupid touches. The Tardis wheezing groaning sound is a stuck gear? Err, no. That means all Tardis' have had stuck gears, coz they all make the same noise. But hey, it's a smart-assed line, so whatever. Sigh.


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I do not think that the modern show will stand the test of time quite as well as the classic show. I think that in the generations to come, the Classic Show will be studied and watched more, flaws and all, while a lot of the Modern Show will be seen as disposable television of it's time, which will have dated terribly, being as full of pop culture references as it is. Anne Droid, Big Brother etc.

You have some good points. Maybe a reboot would have been better, if they insist on retconning everything. But if it hadn’t been a continuation, maybe I wouldn’t have watched any of the classic episodes, which would have been a shame. There’s a lot I like in NuWho - the episodes you mentioned were brilliant - but yes I was quite miffed at 13’s throwaway line that she’d been a woman before and their horrible, completely off-base characterization of the First Doctor.

An interesting note about the Silurians - one reviewer on YouTube said it doesn’t make any sense for new Silurians to have breasts. Why do they resemble humans so much? I have to dig up that video. She was talking about the first season with the Third Doctor. She wasn’t particularly taken with it - she said having it set on Earth made all the episodes “samey” - although she really did like my favorite, “Inferno.”

There are a few things I don’t care for in NuWho, but I do like it being a continuation. I just wish they’d stuck closer to the original in some respects. Does that make sense?

Yes, I agree that if it had been a continuation that honoured the successful and genius parts of the original I would have much more time for it.

But instead of clever and respectful references, I always get a sense that the current team is actually somewhat embarrassed about the flawed elements of the original show - to the point where mockery and ret-conning is the order of the day. Davison's Doctor got (mostly) mocked to his face. Hartnell's Doctor got (completely) mocked and misrepresented to his face.

We have also had Clara overlaid onto the entirety of Classic Who, like an ill-fitting toupee, so that she not only inspired the Doctor and comforted his fears as a boy - the idiots missed a trick there by not making him a girl - but also told him what Tardis to take and, on top of that, was somehow splintered throughout every single one of his Classic adventures, saving the day, working away in the background of THE HORNS OF NIMON and TIMELASH, putting down a banana skin for Paul Darrow to slip on, etc.

As if Moffat had to infest the entire 50 year history with his own Jagaroth like self, via his Clara.

How I wish that the old show had been kept protected and safe from this kind of Show runner's conceited nonsese.

And now, somehow, the possibility has been raised that Doctor was (surely impossibly) seemingly a woman at some point, because the current showrunner has to sneakily overwrite, or at least cast doubt, on the unavoidable, embarrassing, sexist, racist, and extremely uncomfortable fact that there were 12 white men in a row previously, which seems to have been extremely stubborn of the gender and race fluid Doctor.

Just daft.

Classic Who was not perfect, and was a product of it's time, but it surely does not deserve this disrespectful death of a thousand conceited cuts. (Although I maintain that Classic Who will prevail. It is too brilliant to be overshadowed by a conceited, sniping descendent. But this retconning has got very tiresome and more and more implausible.)

And even though a 2005 reboot would have meant that Classic Who became neglected, to some degree, by fans of the new show, at least it would have remained untouched, with no one able to overwrite it, or ret-con it or slather Clara or gender fluid ketchup all over it, and it would also have given the current makers a clean slate, free of sexism, racism and the Myrka.




* A reboot would also have accounted for the fact that TORCHWOOD never once got mentioned in the Classic show, despite being around since Victorian times.

Doctor Omega said:

It is laced with sexism, racial prejudice and a farcical budget.

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Jesus, what are you trying to do, start a rumble? You know how many fanboys you are going to incite?

It is laced with sexism, racial prejudice and a farcical budget.

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I actually punched myself in the mouth after writing that bit CSM!

In the end I agreed to disagree with myself. Then had two drinks.

Doctor Omega said:

Fans being in charge of the asylum has not helped either

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Which is weird, because what we saw with Marvel Studios is that having fans work on the movies made them better. Joss Whedon was a huge comic book fan, and made Avengers, which was amazing. We also saw what happened when they brought in Zack Snyder to work for DC. Not a fan in the classic sense, and made some pretty terrible films. And yet, when we have fans brought in to work on Who, it seems to backfire.

OMG Clara. Clara Clara Clara. Really the actress was good and this companion had a lot of potential, but seriously? Clara as mommy irritated me to no end. But whenever I bitched about it on the old board this Paul something (who wrote a Who novelisation) got on my case. “Listen” was only good because of the Doctor’s speech about fear, and then we have a fake-out with Orson, a quick and simple explanation for ALL of Danny’s life (which does a real disservice to the character), and then CROSSES THE DOCTOR’S TIMELINE (which you should never, ever do) and had Clara put the speech in his head. (And I hated the whole Beethoven explanation at the beginning of the episode.)

when we have fans brought in to work on Who, it seems to backfire

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Yes, I don't understand why that is so.

Maybe a sole showrunner is too much power and they lose perspective, then make mistakes. Nobody there to say no to excesses, promoted-fan-conceit and silliness.

I think Producer and Script Editor was a much more sensible system when it worked properly. RTD and Moffat needed a Robert Holmes or Terrance Dicks who could ring them up and say "Just read your last script. What a load of rubbish!"

Barry Letts and Terrance Dicks seemed to have one of the best working relationships of all.

And thankfully they weren't fans of anything except good storytelling.

Here’s the review that mentions Silurians.

The Seeker said:

this Paul something (who wrote a Who novelisation)

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Yes, he had a go at me too. Paul Saint, i believe.

I had no idea he was a published author and I was once pompously droning on about how many of the Virgin and BBC novels seemed to be rejected science fiction novels that had been resubmitted as Doctor Who books with the Doctor and his companions shoved in.

He asked me if I was having a crafty snipe at him.

That is how I found out he was an author.

Yes, you couldn't say anything remotely critical while he was around. He was like Cerberus, the dog guarding the gates of Hades, ready to leap on anyone who dared criticise Clara. His attacks were kind of acerbic, glib and sarcastic too; as if talking down to an idiot - which I can be - but he didn't need to point it out so smugly.

Here is the book he published, assuming it is the same Paul you came up against, Seeker....

I read it afterward out of curiosity. The concept of a shaven headed Jo Grant and Pertwee Doctor has haunted me to this day.