Spoilers BOND 25: No Time to Die (2020)

ant-mac

Administrator
Staff member
*hangs head in shame* I really need to read the books.
Bond is 183 centimetres tall, weights 76 kilograms, has blue eyes with flecks of steel grey in them and black hair, with an untidy comma of hair that often hangs down above his right eyebrow. He has a 7.5 centimetre scar on his right cheek. His complexion is on the dark side for a Brit and when he is suntanned he almost looks like a foreigner. He appearance has been compared to Hoagy Carmichael.

He originally drove a 1930s Bentley in battle-ship-grey with a supercharged 4.5 litre engine. This meant he often wore driving gauntlets and goggles during a car chase. His original gun was a ladies gun - a .25 calibre Berretta that you could hide in the palm of your hand - and he sometimes carried a flat throwing knife strapped to the inside of his arm, just above the wrist and wore steel-capped shoes. He uses very few gadgets, instead relying on tradecraft, such as using a single strand of his own hair across a cupboard door and talcum powder around locks for security purposes.

He also drank heavily, occasionally used drugs, smoked approximately 70 cigarettes - custom-made for him with Balkan and Turkish tobacco - per day and preferred his sexual partners to be married women to avoid unnecessary complications. He lost his virginity in Paris at the age of 17. He owned a flat in Chelsea, employed an elderly Scottish housekeeper called May and in 1955 earned approximately two thousand pounds per year. However when he was away on a mission, he had an unlimited expense account.

He doesn't always get the girl and has been known to both vomit and faint due to injuries he has received. He was briefly married and widowed and has also fathered a child to a Japanese woman. However, he had no knowledge of this at the time. His own parentage seems to be a cross between Scottish and Swedish parents.

That's just a brief outline of the character, but obviously there is much, much more to him. If you do read the novels, I think you might be in for more than a few surprises. They are quite different from most of the films.
 

cue mark

Member: Rank 1
Great post ant-mac. Sorry I've been scarce on the boards here guys but I am healing from back surgery. Third time. Desk top computers are hard to sit down and type at the moment. I will be back soon. Please keep up the good work!
 

Hux

Member: Rank 6
The problem with every Bond is that the excitement fades by the third outing. His casting was a huge deal and the raw, visceral action of Casino Royale and its grittier feel added to that. Then it went away (pretty quickly).

I'm not sure it remotely matters what Bond looks like in the books. Does that mean Idris Elba doesn't get to play him? The whole point of a new casting is that it gets everyone excited again -- for three films at least -- and that can be as important (if not more so) than the plot of the movie (do Bond movies even have pots?).
 

Gavin

Member: Rank 6
VIP
The problem with every Bond is that the excitement fades by the third outing. His casting was a huge deal and the raw, visceral action of Casino Royale and its grittier feel added to that. Then it went away (pretty quickly).
The problem with Craig's Bond is that Casino Royale was followed up with Quantum of Solace which (partly due to the writers strike) suffered from not being very good. I've watched it twice now and I'm still not fully sure what's happening in it. It's like they finished filming all the action sequences, realised that nobody had written the exposition part of the story, shrugged and then just edited what they had together to make a finished film.
 

Gavin

Member: Rank 6
VIP
I'm not sure it remotely matters what Bond looks like in the books. Does that mean Idris Elba doesn't get to play him? The whole point of a new casting is that it gets everyone excited again -- for three films at least -- and that can be as important (if not more so) than the plot of the movie (do Bond movies even have pots?).
Well now that they've established that Time Lords can change race and gender there should be no issue with Bond being Idris Elba (or Tilda Swinton) :emoji_wink:
 

ant-mac

Administrator
Staff member
Great post ant-mac. Sorry I've been scarce on the boards here guys but I am healing from back surgery. Third time. Desk top computers are hard to sit down and type at the moment. I will be back soon. Please keep up the good work!
I can sympathize with you on that score, cue mark.

I've got my laptop sitting on the lounge table. That way, when it hurts to much to sit upright, I can just lay on one side and type with one hand - like I'm doing at present. It's not a perfect solution, but it helps.
 

ant-mac

Administrator
Staff member
The problem with every Bond is that the excitement fades by the third outing.
I think Sean Connery was still doing just fine in YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE. Likewise with Pierce Brosnan in THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH. I also would've loved to have seen Timothy Dalton make THE PROPERTY OF A LADY.
His casting was a huge deal and the raw, visceral action of Casino Royale and its grittier feel added to that. Then it went away (pretty quickly).
It went away about ten minutes into CASINO ROYALE for me. Daniel Craig is a fine action film star, but he's not James Bond.
I'm not sure it remotely matters what Bond looks like in the books.
There are those who do care and there are those who do not care.

I'm one of the ones who does care, because I'm a James Bond fan.
Does that mean Idris Elba doesn't get to play him?
Yes, it means that Idris Elba doesn't get to play the role, because James Bond is not a black man.
The whole point of a new casting is that it gets everyone excited again -- for three films at least
I was under the impression it was to replace the incumbent, who was either getting too old for the role, was unavailable due to scheduling issues or simply wished to move on to pastures new.
and that can be as important (if not more so) than the plot of the movie (do Bond movies even have pots?).
Yes, they all have plots - with the possible exception of QUANTUM OF SOLACE. However, some are better than others.
 

Hux

Member: Rank 6
Yes, it means that Idris Elba doesn't get to play the role, because James Bond is not a black man
.
James Bond is not a man at all; he's a fictional creation. The idea that he must be exclusively interpreted by a white male actor is moronic.
 

ant-mac

Administrator
Staff member
James Bond is not a man at all; he's a fictional creation.
You are correct, James bond is a fictional creation. And that fictional creation is a white man who works for MI6.
The idea that he must be exclusively interpreted by a white male actor is moronic.
It is not moronic, it is simply a case of being true to and honouring the source material. It is because that source material was so popular that the film series began in the first place.

Meanwhile, insulting another person's opinion, because it differs from your own, is immature and petty.
 

Amyghost

Member: Rank 3
Craig was never really Bond for me, but I agree he was better than Brosnan. I'm not really in favor of 'stunt' or 'token' casting (let's hire a black actor to play the role for no other reason than the fact that he's black), but on the other hand, the series might could stand for a bit of a shake-up at this point, so I'm not completely against giving Elba a shot--pardon the pun--in the role. Frankly, I'd be more interested in seeing better Bond villains; most of the recent ones have lacked the flair of the series' heyday. Problem is that some of the actors whom I think would have made perfect ones are either deceased or are now too old, though I can think of a few contemporaries who'd be perfect.

Heck, I once suggested Hugh Laurie as Bond. He's got the acting chops, can play 'tough', is sexy in an offbeat sort of way, and can certainly be gritty when called for. Problem is he's likely a bit too old for the part now, though I don't think it's impossible that he could get past that and still be pretty credible in the part.
 

Hux

Member: Rank 6
You are correct, James bond is a fictional creation. And that fictional creation is a white man who works for MI6.

It is not moronic, it is simply a case of being true to and honouring the source material. It is because that source material was so popular that the film series began in the first place.

Meanwhile, insulting another person's opinion, because it differs from your own, is immature and petty.
And overt racism is repugnant.

Bond was a spy who worked exclusively in the 50s and 60s yet we somehow managed to move him into 2016 without it being an issue. That's the beauty of fiction -- you can move characters to different time periods, change their gender, race, sexuality. Even send them to space to fight a man with metal teeth if you want. Source material must always adapt otherwise it dies.

Was Moneypenny black in the books? Did it remotely matter?
 

ant-mac

Administrator
Staff member
And overt racism is repugnant.
And to what overt racism are you referring?
Bond was a spy who worked exclusively in the 50s and 60s yet we somehow managed to move him into 2016 without it being an issue.
That is because the film series was rebooted in 2006. They have decided to bring the entire franchise - with minimal alterations - into the present.
That's the beauty of fiction -- you can move characters to different time periods, change their gender, race, sexuality.
You can do so. However, you run the risk of alienating your target audience - if they are familiar with or are fans of the source material. I have seen it being trialled in various genres of the years, with a mixture of outcomes. Some people don't mind it being done - and some people do.
Even send them to space to fight a man with metal teeth if you want.
Yes - and MOONRAKER is held in very low regard by both the general public and James Bond fans - myself included.
Source material must always adapt otherwise it dies.
Everything should have a beginning, a middle and an end. That does not necessarily mean that it dies and is heard from no more, but that it simply has its time.

Better to go out in style with some dignity, rather than to continue on and one, gradually becoming more distorted, more unrecognizable and a virtual parody of your original version. Some of the most successful TV series in recent years have learned this lesson. THE WEST WING and MAD MEN are good examples of this.
Was Moneypenny black in the books? Did it remotely matter?
No - and nor did she and Bond ever socialize in such familiar or intimate terms. Felix Leiter was not black or Hisapanic. He was a Texan with straw coloured hair. And after he was fed to a shark, he had an artificial arm and leg. The arm ended in a steel hook. René Mathis did not end up dead and abandoned in a dumpster like a rag doll.

I personally do not like any of these developments, because they are stark contradictions to the source material. However, simply because they have taken place is no reason to meekly accept any further contradictions without comment.
 
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