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That'll do for Beren - something MUCH stronger for Appendices I feel - falling-down waters of great age and mellowness, with a guaranteed curry afterwards.
Then count me in
Then count me in
Gandalf mentions that the Ring gave Smeagol 'power according to his stature'. Being invisible is a nifty trick for a hobbit - or even a lord of men like Isildur, who is nevertheless weak and vulnerable to its power. But of rather less use to its master, the Dark Lord, who doesn't need invisibility when he's trying to strike fear and terror into the heart of his foes, and wants to be seen smiting them left, right and centre, terrible in his power.In the battle where Sauron looses both hand and Ring: how come we can SEE him? Obviously easier to amputate your enemy's bits and attendant jewellery that way...but, help me out folks - WHY IS HE VISIBLE?
I like your style, and hello, Apostasia, thanks for the reply!'Look upon my face and tremble!' doesn't work quite so well if the answer is, 'Blimey, who just said that?'
Why, thank you, and hello too! Lovely to be here!I like your style, and hello, Apostasia, thanks for the reply!
Yes, I see how that works - although I'm pretty sure that Prof Tolkein in some respects was operating on purely verbal lines whereas Peter J had to help us visualise the narrative.
That doesn't sound like testimony from someone who was saying, 'We went to war, and then something all weird and invisible happened!' I think the point is Elrond could clearly see it, and was distraught, and could see what it meant, for the weakness of men, for the future of the Elves, and for the rest of Middle-Earth. That's part of the tragedy. He clearly saw Isildur cutting the Ring from Sauron.Elrond said:I was the herald of Gil-galad and marched with his host. I was at the Battle of Dagorlad before the Black Gate of Mordor, where we had the mastery: for the Spear of Gil-galad and the Sword of Elendil, Aiglos and Narsil, none could withstand. I beheld the last combat on the slopes of Orodruin, where Gil-galad died, and Elendil fell, and Narsil broke beneath him; but Sauron himself was overthrown, and Isildur cut the Ring from his hand with the hilt-shard of his father’s sword, and took it for his own.
`Alas! yes,’ said Elrond. `Isildur took it, as should not have been. It should have been cast then into Orodruin’s fire nigh at hand where it was made. But few marked what Isildur did. He alone stood by his father in that last mortal contest; and by Gil-galad only Círdan stood, and I. But Isildur would not listen to our counsel.
I think there's a legitimate discussion to be had about why Elrond - who, let's face it, isn't stood on the slopes of Mount Doom with an army at his back just for the sake of a nice afternoon picnic in Mordor - doesn't do more to stop Isildur, and why when Isildur snatches the Ring, Elrond effectively just rolls his eyes, and tuts, 'Bloody men, eh? Would you believe it?!' and walks off. I imagine Elrond's thinking as:Thank you - when you put it like that it makes a lot of sense (although I've always found Elrond a bit shifty to be honest).
I mean, I'm guessing the Ring is weaving its magic on Elrond as much as on Isildur, and even Elrond, having brought an entire war purely for this purpose, is suddenly undone and can't see it through. But all the same. It is odd.Elrond's brain said:'Hmmm, well I can see that this unexpected turn of events is going to lead to an entire Age of misery and despair, and ultimately precipitate the final departure of my entire people from these lands forever. I wonder if I and the massive Elven army at my back, knee-deep in the blood of the slaughtered, who have all come here precisely for this purpose, should do something at this point? Nah, tell you what, let's just all have a big, sad Elven jamboree about how hard life is for a few thousand years, leave it to someone else to do all the work, and then promptly bugger off forever to eternal joy. Hey, we can sing sad songs and everything!
Likewise to the both of you- fascinating ideas, but maybe still room for a few other possible perspectives on Elrond: